Towards Food Sovereignty.
A Conversation Between Marwa Arsanios and María Estela Barco
This conversation was held by videocall on April 15, 2023. This text is an extract that was edited for ease of reading. The full video in Spanish can be viewed at: https://youtu.be/s3kCg12aST0
Marwa Arsanios (MA): Can you begin by describing the work of DESMI (Desarrollo Económico y Social de los Mexicanos Indígenas)? And more specifically your work with seeds?
María Estela Barco (MEB): DESMI is based in the state of Chiapas, in southern Mexico. Our current work is focused on what we call food sovereignty, that is, the recovery and strengthening of the food systems of Indigenous and peasant communities. We understand “food systems” to be the ancestral forms of agriculture in these communities, such as the milpa system, which includes many more products than just corn, beans and squash. When you work agroecologically, you recover native vegetables that also serve as food for your family. We have also taken up coffee as a food system, the agroecological cultivation of organic, shade-grown coffee. These are little ecosystems that, conserved in the shade, allow for the growth of fruit trees and other foods adapted to this environment, which these communities have conserved. This includes medicinal plants, too, and they also provide animal habitats.
The other food system we promote is the cultivation of vegetable gardens. This is primarily performed by women and we promote it at the collective level and at the family level, so that families can complement their diet with other vegetables alongside their milpas and coffee. There is also the ecotechnique of greenhouse production for the cultivation of organic tomatoes, which also serve to complement their family income. All of this is for their own consumption, but the surplus is sold to complement their income. Another system is that of backyard animals, primarily chickens, turkeys, ducks and pigs, which provide families with money but also with protein; this is another food system for us.
We consider the defense of our seeds to be part of this work: the defense, protection and multiplication of seeds in the face of threats from large seed companies and new laws that, although not yet in force, have already been written. We are principally focused on conserving corn, bean, chili pepper and vegetable seeds. We’ve been doing the work of storing, multiplying and socializing seeds little by little among our communities. We have a small group that we call the Red de Guardianas y Guardianes de Semillas operating at the local level to do this work, raising the consciousness of families so that people have the political strength to defend their seeds. For the past five years, we have been working with the Red Mayense de Guardianas y Guardianes de Semillas, which is made up of organizations in Campeche, Yucatán and Quintana Roo, along with us here in Chiapas. In terms of the defense of seeds, we also take strength in these spaces, we learn from each other and promote the exchange of seeds among our peoples.
MA: I have a question regarding the problem of land and property. Is there a movement for collective land ownership? And beyond that, for the possibility of land that can no longer be legally appropriated, that is used for agriculture but where the relationship is one of use rather than appropriation?
MEB: Well, not right now. The only ones who work that way and who have recovered their land are our Zapatista comrades, because it was part of their struggle in 1994. There’s a part of the land that they work collectively and it belongs to the organization, to the communities, but they also redistribute land to each person for their families to work. They’re the only ones who do it. The other communities have ejido land, a form of social property that has been deteriorating with all the laws they’ve passed since 1992. There’s a community where we work that has communal lands. They do the work collectively, but each family also has a small plot of their own. These communal lands are close to San Cristóbal and the land ownership is minimal, each family has less than a hectare. These are different forms of possessing the land, but there’s currently no proposal to socialize the land.
MA: I’m thinking about the question of seeds as non-property, as something so small that is so essential for life or for the subsistence of the life it contains, about how the work of DESMI suggests the non-property of seeds through their circulation and exchange, as well as about how we can conceptualize and discuss this non-property. Are there specific practices that utilize this non-property? I’m also thinking about the non-accumulation of seeds. If seeds move and circulate to be planted, then it’s not a practice of accumulation. Do you have any reflections on the administration of property with regard to seeds?
MEB: The practice of these communities with regard to seeds begins in their plot of land: people start by selecting the best. There’s an ancient practice in which, after each harvest, families save the seeds they’ll need, but there’s also a practice of exchange. If you know someone who needs some seeds, you exchange them; in this sense there’s a certain socialization. This is being done in the Network of Seed Guardians and in the Maya Network. They’re also working to conserve the seeds of medicinal plants, trying to see how long they last without going bad, without spoiling. Something else we’re doing is making sure that each plot of land has a living space for reproducing these seeds, so that if there’s a natural disaster or the harvest is lost for whatever reason, people will still have seeds.
MA: I love this idea of seeds as something social. I think it’s a way of building a relationship with them, but not as an object. Seeds aren’t an object, they’re something that has life, a history, a direction and a path.
MEB: They’re living seeds because we say, for example, that a grain of corn has within it everything it needs to grow. So, they’re living seeds.
MA: Yes, they’re living seeds and they have their own life and history. I think that it’s a very beautiful idea that they have a life of their own and, at the same time, these are ancestral practices that have their own history and are passed down from one generation to another. Do you think that DESMI’s work is necessary in order to preserve and pass on these practices?
MEB: Yes, in the spaces in which we participate, we try to raise consciousness about seeds in the face of threatening laws and the invasion of genetically modified seeds. We especially want to do this with young people so that they take up this love for the land, as well as to stop migration, so that people can have alternatives that allow them to live here in their communities. The migration of young people has increased a great deal in recent years and this is a concern in all of our spaces.
MA: And in terms of your relationship with communities of women, is there a specific policy to empower peasant women?
MEB: Yes, besides their vegetable garden work, they’re also involved in sowing corn, in working with backyard animals. Ever since the pandemic, there has been a growing desire for medicinal plants and so it’s something we’re promoting. There are communities that have women who heal people with medicinal plants. We’re also promoting the cultivation of medicinal plants for salves or microdoses, primarily with women. Working alongside them, we aim to reflect on the rights of women and their right to participation and in this sense it has been very useful to turn to the Ley Revolucionaria de Mujeres Zapatistas. We’re reflecting on their rights alongside them: the right to organize, the right to make decisions. As we say, “Men are the stone in our passway,” but we’re also planning to hold masculinity workshops with them.
MA: There’s a specific violence against women; could we imagine that economics could help us reduce this violence? Women who are economically independent, but interdependent with other women? Are there alternative economies or groups of women who organize around their work with the land and seeds?
MEB: Independence hasn’t yet been achieved. But yes, women are collectively working in their gardens, in their backyards or in what we call the transformation of foods. For example, fruit can be used to make jam and medicinal plants to make salves or microdoses, which can provide them with income. But these are still small collectives and not major economies. There are also women from these communities that produce their own textiles, their huipiles, tablecloths and blouses, which they sell and that generate income. But there’s still no economically independent group of women because, in the case of women who are married and have children, their concern is always their family, not their personal benefit. We’re trying to get them to think about their own interests as well, get them to take care of themselves. But there’s still no economically independent group of just women.
